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Post by hulk007 on Jul 26, 2006 17:51:19 GMT -5
Al you always put a postitive spin and things and I am in complete agreement with you. Places may change while others stand the test of time but as long as there's a beach you will always have places to stay. P.S. I'm glad Robert is back sharing his psychotic meanderings with us. Good to have you back ol' boy
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Jul 26, 2006 19:28:19 GMT -5
Where is the average Joe family going to stay who can't afford the new housing? give up booze, cigarettes and lottery tickets and use the money for vacation -- problem solved! Better to have made your point without slinging that stereotype, an ugly one whether you attach a winkyface to it or not. The point being, there is too much of this "harbingering of doom" about everyone getting priced out of the market. There will always be a mix of places to stay in WW, it's always been that way, and it always will.. Overall, I agree with your sentiment here. Now, the "average Joe" might have to plan ahead better and search a bit harder for those afordable accomodations. But, I also believe that that mix will always be there. I wish I had the vision and the faith that you two share. I don't see it. What I do see here is mostly a bunch of developers and town officials having wet dreams about Wildwood as a major convention destination and all the revenue/profits that will come their way if that happens. I worked in the travel trade press for many years and I'm familiar with the patterns of development in travel and tourism. When I first saw the signs heralding the imminent arrival of the convention center, in the summer of 2001 I guess it was, I thought, oh my god...this is the beginning of the end of the Wildwoods that local people have known and loved since the 1950s. And so far, my sense of foreboding appears justified. I don't see any real evidence of concern for preservation of the wonderful family amenities that the Crest in particular always offered. I see the motels where families stayed being replaced by condos that most of the middle class cannot afford, and I note the generally "upmarket" nature of the motels that are surviving, especially on the beachfront--Pan American, Port Royal, El Coronado, Bal Harbour etc. are not cheap. I guarantee that the highrises advocated by the members of the "think big" neo-doowop school will not be "affordable" either. And I don't think the powers that be give a rat's rear about that. If they get enough conventions, the Wildwoods won't need to be a destination for Average Joe... I read the interview with hoteliers Reggie Byrne and Mary Erceg that was posted here last fall (here: dwpl.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=neo&action=display&thread=1130333558&page=1#1130333558 if anyone cares to review) and I found it repugnant for the most part. There may still be a "mix" left in 10 years, but I think it will be very unfavorable to the middle-class vacationer.
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Post by FlyinGN on Jul 26, 2006 19:58:15 GMT -5
getting hot in here...
anyway I think WW is still affordable. Heck, my Dad paid $100 a night at the Port Royal some 33 years ago!!!! Now we pay less then double that a night. Thats NOT a large increase guys..
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Post by MMM on Jul 26, 2006 20:24:03 GMT -5
I don't see the new Convention Center as something that influenced the demolitions in the Crest.
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Post by Doowopper on Jul 26, 2006 20:43:08 GMT -5
I don't either. I think what happened was the convention center was built at a time when the Wildwoods were just being discovered by developers, and land values were on the rise. This happened all over the state, just many places had old homes being demod instead of motels. The Wildwoods were probably the only towns to have so many motels, they just got in the way of developers, so they were bought and demo'd
But I know zero about Real Estate so I may be totally wrong!
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JIMD
Full Member
Posts: 221
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Post by JIMD on Jul 26, 2006 22:11:18 GMT -5
From what I see availble the prices are way too high to but a motel, demo it, build condos and make money. I think the building is just about done unless motel owners drop the prices big time
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Post by thelastresort on Jul 26, 2006 22:50:17 GMT -5
give up booze, cigarettes and lottery tickets and use the money for vacation -- problem solved! Better to have made your point without slinging that stereotype, an ugly one whether you attach a winkyface to it or not. Overall, I agree with your sentiment here. Now, the "average Joe" might have to plan ahead better and search a bit harder for those afordable accomodations. But, I also believe that that mix will always be there. I wish I had the vision and the faith that you two share. I don't see it. What I do see here is mostly a bunch of developers and town officials having wet dreams about Wildwood as a major convention destination and all the revenue/profits that will come their way if that happens. I worked in the travel trade press for many years and I'm familiar with the patterns of development in travel and tourism. When I first saw the signs heralding the imminent arrival of the convention center, in the summer of 2001 I guess it was, I thought, oh my god...this is the beginning of the end of the Wildwoods that local people have known and loved since the 1950s. And so far, my sense of foreboding appears justified. I don't see any real evidence of concern for preservation of the wonderful family amenities that the Crest in particular always offered. I see the motels where families stayed being replaced by condos that most of the middle class cannot afford, and I note the generally "upmarket" nature of the motels that are surviving, especially on the beachfront--Pan American, Port Royal, El Coronado, Bal Harbour etc. are not cheap. I guarantee that the highrises advocated by the members of the "think big" neo-doowop school will not be "affordable" either. And I don't think the powers that be give a rat's rear about that. If they get enough conventions, the Wildwoods won't need to be a destination for Average Joe... I read the interview with hoteliers Reggie Byrne and Mary Erceg that was posted here last fall (here: dwpl.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=neo&action=display&thread=1130333558&page=1#1130333558 if anyone cares to review) and I found it repugnant for the most part. There may still be a "mix" left in 10 years, but I think it will be very unfavorable to the middle-class vacationer. what "ugly" stereotype? Hey, if some people have lousy priorities, tough luck. And I know alot of well-off people too who are so up to their eyeballs in debt due to nonsense spending they can barely afford gas. knuckleheads. And my point of attaching the so-called "wrinkly face" was to make it worse, not soften the blow. I should have put this ..!.. (the "middle finger" emoticon) Do you propose the government establish the "Federal Vacation Program" so everyone gets a free trip to the shore? spare me the petulant drama, please. And a few days down the shore is still far less expensive than just about any other option. Hell, a night at the ballpark with the kids runs $100, and that's for only 2 hours. I agree with FlyinGN on this one totally, the prices for even the nicer of the places is still within the average person's range, the only other option is to not take a vacation at all, pretty much.
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Post by hulk007 on Jul 27, 2006 0:11:45 GMT -5
Can always take the kiddies to the movies. I heard that "Cars" is a good flick
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Jul 27, 2006 2:04:03 GMT -5
Martin and Doowopper--Don't you find it hard to believe it's just a coincidence? The Crest barely changed at all for more than 30 years, and empty lots just sat there. Then along comes the Wildwoods convention center, and just like that, within a year of its completion, the Crest starts turning into a demolition/construction zone as developers "discover" it? Where were they all those years before? If the convention center wasn't the catalyst, what do you think it was?
Lastresort--Don't waste your energy trying to bait me into a liberal-conservative p***ing contest, I'm not gonna get into that with you or anyone else on this board. I suggest we agree to ignore one another.
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Post by FlyinGN on Jul 27, 2006 6:03:06 GMT -5
I think the upswing in real estate values was the catalyst. I mean before this sudden surge in real estate values, do you think that anyone would give a hotel owner millions and then spend another 1/2 mil to demo it, then another few million to build condos if they did not think that they would be able to sell em for so much?? The motel demos were starting to happen before the convention center was there.. Right?? Martin and Doowopper--Don't you find it hard to believe it's just a coincidence? The Crest barely changed at all for more than 30 years, and empty lots just sat there. Then along comes the Wildwoods convention center, and just like that, within a year of its completion, the Crest starts turning into a demolition/construction zone as developers "discover" it? Where were they all those years before? If the convention center wasn't the catalyst, what do you think it was? Lastresort--Don't waste your energy trying to bait me into a liberal-conservative p***ing contest, I'm not gonna get into that with you or anyone else on this board. I suggest we agree to ignore one another.
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Post by thelastresort on Jul 27, 2006 6:56:19 GMT -5
fuzzy - ok, if that's what you want, but I think it is ok for each other to express our opinions, who cares, really? hell, you were the one who accused me, remember? ("ugly stereotype").
My dad did not have a money tree in the back yard, and we had to sacrifice to go to the shore even for a few days, when rooms were $49 a night 35 years ago. I'm sure the vast majority of the WWII generation (who, by the way, made the resort what it is today) had to do that to take their kids also. And you didn't hear them bellyaching all the time.
I supposed if I said "buy another television" I would have gotten away with it, but because I said "booze and cigarettes" I am a "bad guy". Faa - Q.
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Post by wildwanderer on Jul 27, 2006 9:38:07 GMT -5
I can't see how the convention center was the epicenter of all the changes that are happening. It was a factor of the Real Estate Boom which is now over. Development is slowing, mortgage rates are on the rise and contractors are not as busy. I know this personally. WW is still going to exist but in a different mode. We live in a different world now. When I visit I still see the middle class citizens on the boards and enjoying WW. Upheaval in the crest, yes. Changes are happening EVERYWHERE. However like I said before the center of WW is still pretty much how I have always remembered it. We come for the beach, the boards,the party atmosphere, the amusements, people, and the all around love of the island. These factors will keep me coming condos or not.
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Post by choochoochuck on Jul 27, 2006 10:03:15 GMT -5
at least we have what we have...is there anyway we can help?
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JIMD
Full Member
Posts: 221
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Post by JIMD on Jul 27, 2006 12:07:24 GMT -5
Where is the average Joe family going to stay who can't afford the new housing? give up booze, cigarettes and lottery tickets and use the money for vacation -- problem solved! The point being, there is too much of this "harbingering of doom" about everyone getting priced out of the market. There will always be a mix of places to stay in WW, it's always been that way, and it always will.. You better hope people don't give up booze, cigs and lottery tickets or our taxes will go up 10 times !
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Post by thelastresort on Jul 27, 2006 13:17:06 GMT -5
good point, touche'! let's say a novena that they get the slots at the racetracks soon, so maybe our school taxes will go down!
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