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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Sept 30, 2006 12:04:02 GMT -5
Every culture under attack, and that's what doo-wop is.This definitely hits the nail on the head. Or better yet, every aspect of traditional American culture is under attack, which is what 50's WW is. To be honest, wasn't it the 60's generation that fundamentally rejected all of this in the first place 40 years ago? (which is why I don't really care for the 60's -- yeah, sure, I like the music). And now, the chickens are coming home to roost, so to speak, but it's too late. Maybe the generation that started the movement should go ask the Maharishi for advice as to what to do about it now. <sigh> Your agenda is showing again. The attack I refer to is an indirect one that has been led by predatory real estate developers and aided and abetted by corrupt/lazy/stupid [check all that apply] officials. The almighty dollar is their target, but the Wildwoods' doo-wop culture has been horribly trampled in the charge. Ain't got nothin' to do with hippie chickens... This is yet another totally classic conservative-liberal split, in which you see--what? the "wages of sin," or just plain human folly?--and I see the evils of capitalism. Political polarization is so well established in this country by now that almost any attempt to close such a gap is doomed, and who has energy to spare for such quixotic efforts? Do I not correctly recall your saying recently that stress reduction was a new priority for you? Maybe we should try to stay clear of the precipice by keeping it local...this forum is about the Wildwoods, after all.
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Sept 30, 2006 12:30:36 GMT -5
So the Binn's building is 70-something years old? It seems that it must have been the Hotel Binns going pretty far back, into the pre-motel era. Discussing regulatory reform that put pressure on Wildwood's hotels beginning in 1947, the book Wildwood-by-the-Sea says: "Most hotels accepted the inevitable and contracted to install the appropriate safety equipment. In many cases it provided the hotelmen a good excuse to modernize their aging properties in an attempt to compete with the motels. Sarah Binns, veteran owner of Hotel Binns on Atlantic Avenue, expanded her Florida-style hotel by adding seventeen new rooms on a new second floor complete with wall-to-wall carpeting and luxurious furnishings." Here from a current eBay listing is a postcard rendering showing it as a two-story structure, meaning the above-mentioned expansion would have preceded the postcard, which the seller says is from 1954:
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Post by thelastresort on Oct 1, 2006 8:26:31 GMT -5
Every culture under attack, and that's what doo-wop is.This definitely hits the nail on the head. Or better yet, every aspect of traditional American culture is under attack, which is what 50's WW is. To be honest, wasn't it the 60's generation that fundamentally rejected all of this in the first place 40 years ago? (which is why I don't really care for the 60's -- yeah, sure, I like the music). And now, the chickens are coming home to roost, so to speak, but it's too late. Maybe the generation that started the movement should go ask the Maharishi for advice as to what to do about it now. <sigh> Your agenda is showing again. The attack I refer to is an indirect one that has been led by predatory real estate developers and aided and abetted by corrupt/lazy/stupid [check all that apply] officials. The almighty dollar is their target, but the Wildwoods' doo-wop culture has been horribly trampled in the charge. Ain't got nothin' to do with hippie chickens... This is yet another totally classic conservative-liberal split, in which you see--what? the "wages of sin," or just plain human folly?--and I see the evils of capitalism. Political polarization is so well established in this country by now that almost any attempt to close such a gap is doomed, and who has energy to spare for such quixotic efforts? Do I not correctly recall your saying recently that stress reduction was a new priority for you? Maybe we should try to stay clear of the precipice by keeping it local...this forum is about the Wildwoods, after all. Hi again, Actually, I think this conversation between us does have something to do with WW. Yeah, I know, I took the opportunity to get my little right-wing jab out there, but let's think about it. It is true that there are certain movements, culturally and so on, that are overtly intended to be a rejection of the past. The "arts and crafts" movement around the turn of last century was a rejection of the opulent Victorian era style. Similarly, the late 60's and what followed in the 70's was a rejection of the 50's, in particular, both architecturally and culturally. Remember everyone in the 70's was covering up their hardwood with shag carpet? Even one of my aunts redid her turn of the century house in 1976 with this God-awful 70's style stuff. I just think the contempt for the 50's that occurred in the 60's was more visceral than this country had experienced in the past, an outright hatred, nothing less. Don't know if you are a movie buff, but if you recall the scene from "Field of Dreams" where Ray Consella's wife is getting into it with the woman at the PTA and says "you never experienced the 60's. you had two 50's and went right on to the 70's". Inferring that "the 50's" was some kind of disease. Don't get me wrong, I bought into some of that hogwash too when I was in my late teens/early 20's. But it just seems now that the folks who were so happy to get rid of it 40 years ago are realizing that the 50's were not all that bad, and actually, better in many respects to what is going on today. Hence, the popularity for WW, it brings back that "state of mind", whether one lived through it or not. To again quote a line from "Field of Dreams" (although James Earl Jones was referring to baseball) -- "it reminds us of all that was once good, and could be again".
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Post by Rob Ascough on Oct 2, 2006 9:16:24 GMT -5
It happens all the time. I remember at the beginning of the 90's the dark, monochromatic look was in. It seemed to be in defiance of the 80's where bright, pastel colors were all the rage. A comparison of something heavily entrenched in pop culture, like music videos, does a pretty good job of illustrating this fact.
Not having lived through the 50's and 60's, it's easy for me to look back and see how one rejected the other. The 50's seemed so neat and orderly- the perfect example of a country riding the success and prosperity following a great war. The 60's, by comparison, seemed to reject all of that by being as haphazard and spontaneous as possible. I'm sure the 70's were a bit of a rejection of the 60's, although I feel that decade is pretty much a low point for many things. Architecture, automobile design, music (aside from rock music)... people seem to look to the 50's, 60's and even 80's for inspiration but not the 70's. No one seems to pine for a huge Chevy Caprice station wagon.
And back to the Binns... what a great postcard! It would be nice if some money was put into the place and returned to that look. That building definitelt pre-dates the majority of motels on the island. But what made it a "Florida style" hotel? I've never heard that term before.
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 2, 2006 14:51:39 GMT -5
Actually, I think this conversation between us does have something to do with WW. Yeah, I know, I took the opportunity to get my little right-wing jab out there, but let's think about it. It is true that there are certain movements, culturally and so on, that are overtly intended to be a rejection of the past. The "arts and crafts" movement around the turn of last century was a rejection of the opulent Victorian era style. Similarly, the late 60's and what followed in the 70's was a rejection of the 50's, in particular, both architecturally and culturally. Remember everyone in the 70's was covering up their hardwood with shag carpet? Even one of my aunts redid her turn of the century house in 1976 with this God-awful 70's style stuff. I just think the contempt for the 50's that occurred in the 60's was more visceral than this country had experienced in the past, an outright hatred, nothing less. Don't know if you are a movie buff, but if you recall the scene from "Field of Dreams" where Ray Consella's wife is getting into it with the woman at the PTA and says "you never experienced the 60's. you had two 50's and went right on to the 70's". Inferring that "the 50's" was some kind of disease. Don't get me wrong, I bought into some of that hogwash too when I was in my late teens/early 20's. But it just seems now that the folks who were so happy to get rid of it 40 years ago are realizing that the 50's were not all that bad, and actually, better in many respects to what is going on today. Hence, the popularity for WW, it brings back that "state of mind", whether one lived through it or not. To again quote a line from "Field of Dreams" (although James Earl Jones was referring to baseball) -- "it reminds us of all that was once good, and could be again". NOW you're talking I’m glad you took the time to unfold your thoughts a bit. I think I understand your perspective better now. I do believe the shifts in style, or fashion, that you refer to were mostly not “movements” in the self-conscious arts-and-crafts manner. Rather, they were the end result of the millions of little decisions by individual citizens that drive the natural rhythms or cycles of style. (The deeper levels of culture--the levels of philosophy, morals, ethics--that obviously were also involved in the rejection of the 50s that you’re thinking about do not seem to me to really be relevant to the Wildwoods situation, but maybe I’m not thinking this through as far as I should.) Through all the years that the 50s were held in such contempt, the Wildwoods stayed more or less the same, other than some manifestations of that 70s shag-carpet mentality that unfortunately surfaced when rooms were renovated at the midcentury motels . Perhaps a lack of appreciation for doo-wop style during the 70s and 80s contributed to lean times that wore down the motel owner/operators and made them ripe for the picking, but I think there were other, more potent factors at work in what is generally regarded as the Wildwoods’ decline phase. The irony I see at this point in the conversation lies in your comment, “the folks who were so happy to get rid of it 40 years ago are realizing that the 50's were not all that bad.” That’s true--in fact, in a sense, that’s what this board is all about: people from different generations and locations all coming around at roughly the same time to a rekindled appreciation of 50s style and a strong desire to preserve its very distinctive expression in the Wildwoods. But what have we been able to do about it? Basically, nothing. It doesn’t matter what we as individuals think, because big business and big money are calling all the shots that count in this country today. The ghosts of 100+ lost motels and landmarks are here to testify to that. The recent transformation of the island is not the work of people who hate the 50s; if anything, it’s been done by profiteers rushing to exploit my generation’s desire to return to a childhood paradise and grab our own little piece of doo-wop heaven. (Ouch.)
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Post by thelastresort on Oct 3, 2006 8:46:50 GMT -5
It doesn’t matter what we as individuals think, because big business and big money are calling all the shots that count in this country today. The ghosts of 100+ lost motels and landmarks are here to testify to that. The recent transformation of the island is not the work of people who hate the 50s; if anything, it’s been done by profiteers rushing to exploit my generation’s desire to return to a childhood paradise and grab our own little piece of doo-wop heaven. (Ouch.) At last, common ground! No argument here, the big business "new world order" is calling the shots. Not sure, though, how putting up condos is exploiting a "generation's desire to return to..." I would think they would try to exploit it by fixing up the 50's motels and raising the rates to bed and breakfast ranges ($250/night) to exploit the nostalgia of it. If anything, your's, mine and our opinions and thoughts are irrelevant. I've said this before, if the machine could figure out a way to turn a huge profit by tearing down the Victorian homes in Cape May and putting up ugly Watergate style buildings like that God-awful highrise on Washington Street, down they come. PS, and the machine is run by all stripes, ex-hippies, blue bloods, neuvo-riche, you name it. No discrimination there, as long as everyone's pockets are green.
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 4, 2006 0:12:47 GMT -5
At last, common ground! No argument here, the big business "new world order" is calling the shots. Glad we see eye to eye on that one Um, isn't Morey Hospitality already doing that? ;D ... And I wouldn't be surprised to see it done by others as well with some of the doo-wop motels that remain. But I've read that the recent spurt in condo sales nationwide includes a large proportion of second homes--i.e., vacation homes. I also saw an article, I think in the Times, about how boomers are chomping at the bit to buy homes in the shore towns that we loved as kids. The leading edge of my generation is heading into retirement, of course, and those who have done well enough can start to consider living where they want to live instead of where they have to live to be near a particular job market. Maybe, for many boomers in the metro NY and especially Philly areas, that means the Wildwoods. We boomers can't take all the blame for feeding redevelopment of course... I gather there are a fair number of affluent younger people buying these shore condos with the hope that they'll pay for themselves via rental income. Though not as many as the developers counted on. One owner of a small apartment house in the Crest-Wildwood border area that I talked to last month said that two of the major realty companies have told him there are 2100 condo units currently available in the Wildwoods--"and it will take 10 years to sell them." One can only hope...
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Post by Robert on Oct 4, 2006 2:03:47 GMT -5
Well, I would guess that space is at a premium in WW, which is why the developers were so quick to pounce on public businesses such as motels and restaurants, more money could be made from condo units than the income from the business for the entire year.
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 5, 2006 11:02:15 GMT -5
Well, I would guess that space is at a premium in WW, which is why the developers were so quick to pounce on public businesses such as motels and restaurants They seem to have pounced on everything. The Boyer Museum has three or four huge ring binders full of pictures of buildings that have been demolished since 2002. I was stunned at the number of single-family homes among them. I didn't have much time to peruse those binders, but I guess most of what was left of the old rooming houses must have been in them, too. I miss the charm of those places, even if some had grown a bit seedy (I can see our Wildwoods-native friends here rolling their eyes now ). I spent more time in Wildwood proper during my September trip than I normally do, and looked around for the rooming houses a bit. I found only a handful, one being the Doris Vernon, which I gather from something posted here (by Wildre I think) is also on its way out.
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Post by organator on Oct 5, 2006 12:03:37 GMT -5
Speaking of rooming houses - Does anyone know the future of Max's On the Beach on Garfield Ave? I think there are two buildings right next to each other. I have driven by there at night and there are always a number of kids hanging out in the front of them.
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Post by FlyinGN on Oct 5, 2006 16:25:47 GMT -5
I know. Last winter when we went there and Met Anthony I was shocked too at how many houses the island lost to condos.. Well, I would guess that space is at a premium in WW, which is why the developers were so quick to pounce on public businesses such as motels and restaurants They seem to have pounced on everything. The Boyer Museum has three or four huge ring binders full of pictures of buildings that have been demolished since 2002. I was stunned at the number of single-family homes among them. I didn't have much time to peruse those binders, but I guess most of what was left of the old rooming houses must have been in them, too. I miss the charm of those places, even if some had grown a bit seedy (I can see our Wildwoods-native friends here rolling their eyes now ). I spent more time in Wildwood proper during my September trip than I normally do, and looked around for the rooming houses a bit. I found only a handful, one being the Doris Vernon, which I gather from something posted here (by Wildre I think) is also on its way out.
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