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Post by wildre on Oct 20, 2006 11:16:35 GMT -5
Well it looks like they are going ahead with the Wildwood Beach Hotel and Resort. Saw a thing in this weeks Shoppe(page-36) about an invitation only pre-sales reservation event Saturday at the Convention Center. They have great plans for this resort as per their website www.wbwildwood.com/re
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Post by Doo Wop Mike D on Oct 20, 2006 12:09:16 GMT -5
If this project is actually built as proposed, I think it will be GREAT for Wildwood...
I know these high-rises are controversial and really get to the heart of the differences in interpreting what the Doo Wop movement is supposed to be all about, but IF (and I still think its an if, until proven otherwise) the market climate (among other factors) allows these kinds of condo/hotels to be built, this IS the future of Wildwood, and (while we can continue to debate the 25-story scale) the ONLY way Wildwood is going to have a chance to succeed as an overall city and destination for the next generation... Remember, even if we had been able to save 100% of the motels in the proposed historic district in WW Crest, center-city Wildwood, save for a few notable properties, has largely been in need of wholesale re-development.
The developers of this hotel are right on with the way they're marketing and presenting this project too... again, feel free to disagree with me, but capturing and embracing the historic SPIRIT of Wildwood with buildings that are otherwise completely cutting-edge and modern, is going to be the way the "Doo Wop" concept lives on and continues to make Wildwood a unique place in the country...
Of course as I've always said, its still extremely important to try to save what remains of the motel district in WW Crest which I think would round out the destination... the classic atmosphere of the motels and the modern twist of the high-rises... the common thread being all are uniquely WILDWOOD...
Preserving Wildwood just for the sake of keeping things as they've always been is a dead idea at this point, and I don't think was ever necessarily a good idea or the idea behind the movement to preserve the Doo Wop Motels...
Preserving more of the really unique stuff... the stand-out motels, the blocks where the motels were really concentrated (i.e. in the Crest) etc... was definitely even more of an opportunity to secure Wildwood's uniqueness that we managed to squander, but we can't look back... if you keep looking back, then might as well never look forward because you'll never like what you see...
With the passing of one blown opportunity (to preserve the critical mass of motels), comes another, very different but equally exciting (in my mind) opportunity to make Wildwood unique and exciting... Let's run with it...
Not to sound like a cheerleader for big development, but I'm excited about the possibilities...
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 20, 2006 12:42:06 GMT -5
Not much to see at www.wbwildwood.com yet, other than an invitation to join the party that is clearly directed at folks in the 95th income percentile or thereabouts. "Hurry, send in your $2,500 deposit to reserve your four-star condo. Of course, we know YOU don't need to ask the price..."The guy I talked to in September who owns the little place on Bennett said in expressing disdain for the city's new aspirations, "Wildwood will always be a blue-collar town" (and we agreed we'd both prefer it that way). We'll soon find out who's right, I guess.
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 20, 2006 13:50:34 GMT -5
If this project is actually built as proposed, I think it will be GREAT for Wildwood... I know these high-rises are controversial and really get to the heart of the differences in interpreting what the Doo Wop movement is supposed to be all about, but IF (and I still think its an if, until proven otherwise) the market climate (among other factors) allows these kinds of condo/hotels to be built, this IS thefuture of Wildwood, and (while we can continue to debate the 25-story scale) ... debate about upscale/highrise redevelopment, in general, is now officially discouraged? On that crucial issue I do respectfully defer to those who have an actual stake in the Wildwoods and spend at least a few months of the year in residence there--which I suppose would include you, Mike?--but some facts and figures demonstrating that there really is no other way for the city of Wildwood to thrive would be nice. Clearly there must be some doubt about the level of demand for upscale short-term accommodations, for either travel/tourism or conventions, since the big names in the lodging business still seem to be avoiding the island like the plague. Perhaps a topic for the new forum... With 50-plus years of Wildwood visits under my belt, it seems to me that the “historic spirit of Wildwood” was always... dare I say it? ... inclusive, although perhaps not to the ideal degree. That is certainly not the spirit of the projects currently on the table. Yeah, to hell with those whining old-fogey boomers, they'll all be dead soon anyway thanks to the depraved lifestyles of their youth Is that in the new forum rule book? So, because we have passed the proverbial tipping point, shall we now completely abandon the old motels? Is that the implication here? [aside] I knew we should’ve had Mike inoculated against Belldon’s disease ;D So, what are we calling it now, the Condoluxe Promotion League? I dunno... If all of the above constitutes a preview of the agenda, priorities and thrust of "closer moderation" for the new forum, maybe now's the time for me, at least, to get off this trolley...
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Post by Doo Wop Mike D on Oct 20, 2006 14:26:13 GMT -5
Fuzzy,
Don't read too much into what I'm saying... it's all just my opinion, and nothing more...
As I think everyone on this board could attest to, I am more than open to discussion, debate and even controversy... it's good for this board, and its good for Wildwood... by no means will this change on the new forum... by "closer moderation" I mean keeping some of the off-topic personal rants, attacks and tangents to a minimum...
Your thoughts on the high-rise situation are welcomed. As I know we have somewhat of a split on this forum (and within the DWPL in general) regarding this issue, if anything, I was hoping to stir up some good debate with my post. As you can tell, I am personally in support of the "go for the gusto" development (when it comes to hotel/tourism-friendly development, not residential sprawl, and not at the expense of the still-well-preserved motel districts in WW Crest), while acknowledging its potential pitfalls and risks. I welcome other, conflicting opinions and look forward to hearing them, as I'm sure we all do.
It's a pet peeve of mine (and another reason for my post) that there has been a recent trend in the local media to equate the proposed high-rise development in Wildwood with being the antithesis of the Doo Wop preservation movement (which has always focused more on the motel district in WW Crest) and that is simply not the case.
As for the socioeconomic issues that surround all of this, yes, there are some real serious challenges the Wildwoods have to face and deal with regarding keeping the island affordable for a wide range of residents and tourists. Personally, I think its just as self-defeating to say Wildwood should always remain nothing more than an exclusively blue-collar resort, as it would be to say Wildwood should suddenly become an exclusively upscale place. Wildwood shouldn't be exclusive one way or the other. We have a unique opportunity to strike a balance not commonly found on the Jersey Shore. Traditional motels, upgraded boutique motels, new more luxurious high-rise hotels and a wide range of condo/residential options. That's what I'm hoping for. The goals of the DWPL in preserving architecture and style would coincide with preserving diversity and economic versatility on the island.
-Mike D
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Post by wildre on Oct 20, 2006 15:56:13 GMT -5
Not much to see at www.wbwildwood.com yet, other than an invitation to join the party that is clearly directed at folks in the 95th income percentile or thereabouts. "Hurry, send in your $2,500 deposit to reserve your four-star condo. Of course, we know YOU don't need to ask the price..."The guy I talked to in September who owns the little place on Bennett said in expressing disdain for the city's new aspirations, "Wildwood will always be a blue-collar town" (and we agreed we'd both prefer it that way). We'll soon find out who's right, I guess. fuzzy, how can you say this project is geared to the 95%? Granted the price in unknown but you can't paint with such a broad stroke, with such a general sweeping statement. Maybe something new with indoor amenities for year round use is a step in the right direction? Condotels have been around for years, the LeBoot in NWW is one and has been for many years. It seems to work well as they always appear full. If a new developer wants to come to the Wildwoods, go through the monstrous winding road of CFRA permitting, then let them come. Clearly the project is innovative especially for the Wildwoods, if they can pull it off more power to them. Some of the older Motels aren't viable for year round use, many don't have heat. Many owners haven't been willing to update their properties so they aren't willing to fund the needed renovations to make them what they can be. In some cases it may be cheaper and more practical to demo them and start from the ground up. We need a mix of accommodations for all blue, white, purple collared tourist. There will always be "motel" people, just like their will always be condo/house" rental" people. That makes for a real cross section of America and provides the diversity that could make The Wildwoods thrive. Unfortunately change is inevitable we can only hope this project and the others to follow are prudent usage for the land that's availiable. The Island is changing, it's no longer strictly blue color and hasn't been. My tenants are a diverse and varied group , rarely from Philly proper, who each find something here in The Wildwoods to bring them back often. We need to preserve what we can while building for the future of an Island we all deeply care about. re
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Post by MMM on Oct 20, 2006 17:23:00 GMT -5
How many stories for the Wildwood Beach? Still 25?
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Post by JerseyDigger29 on Oct 20, 2006 20:20:43 GMT -5
How many stories for the Wildwood Beach? Still 25? Martin - That's what the media invitation I received said: 25. When I received the invite to the Saturday night party they're having in the new Starlight Ballroom, my first and only thought was "why are they throwing a party now? Do they know something about the still pending CAFRA denials that no one else knows?" As background, the Nouveau Wave was denied by CAFRA because of its height and CAFRA's worry that birds would be committing mass suicide by crashing into it. At last word, the decision was to be appealed, and then the city of Wildwood completely revised it's height ordinance making the height mandatory. Supposedly this was to have placated CAFRA's concerns. (No word yet on the appeal). And then the Morey Family's Starlight Resort was given its public hearing by CAFRA. The decision on approval is still pending at last word. So, just today, I asked someone who should know why the W.B. would hold a celebration without CAFRA approval, given these other two cases. The UNOFFICIAL answer I got was (pssst... don't tell anyone! ;D), an insider has passed down the word that Wildwood's highrises should all be approved (given the change in the mandatory height requirement, I suppose), but CAFRA may require a slight reduction in the height by reducing the number of parking floors, but not the number of residential and hotel units. Again, this is all unofficial, but the person doesn't seem too worried about eventual approval. So, I guess, the reason the W.B. is throwing a big party tomorrow night is because they know something positive that hasn't been released yet. Thom P.S. According to the party invitation, the Wildwood Beach is expected to open its doors in 2009. (They HAVE to know something!!).
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Post by hulk007 on Oct 20, 2006 20:53:40 GMT -5
What motels are coming down for the Wildwood Beach to be built?
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Post by Doowopper on Oct 20, 2006 21:04:45 GMT -5
I "dig" the giant lava lamps on the facade, a cool touch. I just find it a bit to tall and domineering. Though, the location is good (where the oceanic is, right). It seems more open around there and I think if the bigger places were built there, and Preservation actually happened in the Crest, you could have two really cool and same yet different parts of Wildwood. As long as these new daring places don't end up killing off the motels I have no problem with them.
A historic district full of what's left of our favorites and a new modern yet still flashy and bold section near the Convention center would be grand if it all worked out! Exciting and risky times are ahead of us.
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Post by JerseyDigger29 on Oct 20, 2006 21:10:25 GMT -5
What motels are coming down for the Wildwood Beach to be built? The WB will take up the entire city block between Burk and Andrews and Ocean and Atlantic. The Oceanic, the Days Inn, and the Cork and Bottle Liquor Store are all coming down, along with the little apartment house in the middle of the block on Burk. Thom
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 20, 2006 21:10:48 GMT -5
What motels are coming down for the Wildwood Beach to be built? The Oceanic... I was talking to the people at the desk last month, who said it would have one more season. They told me it is older than most of the other midcentury motels, having been built in the 40s, and was physically beyond hope. Sad.
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Post by JerseyDigger29 on Oct 20, 2006 21:24:04 GMT -5
What motels are coming down for the Wildwood Beach to be built? The Oceanic... I was talking to the people at the desk last month, who said it would have one more season. They told me it is older than most of the other midcentury motels, having been built in the 40s, and was physically beyond hope. Sad. I think it is older than Doo Wop like you said, it looks like the 40's. Maybe the people you were talking to hadn't gotten the word yet, or maye they didn't have any indication of CAFRA's decision at the time. I have to believe, though, that if a building of this size is to open in 2009, the Oceanic can't possibly be open in 2007. What do you think? These huge buildings have to take more than a year to build, I would think. Thom
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 20, 2006 21:37:17 GMT -5
fuzzy, how can you say this project is geared to the 95%? Granted the price in unknown but you can't paint with such a broad stroke, with such a general sweeping statement. Well, re, it's just the whole tenor of the advertisement (which is what the site is billed as, for now; it's not really an informational site yet). I can't copy any text because of the way it's formatted, but the "amenities" page is the one that really prompted my reaction. It says "owners and patrons will have use of Wildwood's first four-star establishment" and talks about various features that sound very, very expensive to create. The whole thing screams "upscale." It mentions in passing that there will be 150 hotel units (vs. 190 condos), but this isn't an appeal to the prospective visitor; it's a pitch for deposits on the condos. Indoor attractions could be beneficial to tourist and convention business I suppose, as Thom has often said. But not if they're exclusionary. In this first pitch for the WB, it sounds as though you may not have access to these amenities if you're not an owner of one of the condos or a guest in one of those four-star (what do you reckon? $300 a night?) hotel rooms. But we'll see how it develops. That may be true if you equate a 2006 condotel room with a 1960 motel room, and you don't assign any dollar value to the character of the old place. I can't view it that way. Right, but given the current trend I think the goal of a "mix" is in peril. All I see the past few years is affordable lodging being demolished and being replaced by premium-priced lodging and residences. And I worry that more than a couple of new developments like the WB, with all the media attention they'll draw, will change Wildwood's image in a way that discourages people of modest means from even trying to visit; they'll assume it's been reborn as Atlantic City II and write it off. Yes, and it's a tightrope act, for sure.
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Post by JerseyDigger29 on Oct 20, 2006 22:18:59 GMT -5
Fuzzy - is $300 a night really upscale anymore? I mean, the Congress Hall and the Marquis de Lafayette in Cape May charge between 300 to 400 a night now (The Marquis is a condotel, BTW). And this hotel, the WB, is going to have a lot more to offer modern tourists than those hotels in Cape May, so maybe $300 a night is justifiable. Also, I think I read or heard somewhere that many of the facilities in the WB will be available to the general public right off the street. Possibly the indoor beach and tiki bar as well as a restaurant and the indoor stores, etc. I don't know if this is true anymore but I would think that some facilities would be available to the public. Several of the new skyrises are planning public facilities. The Starlight Resort in front of Hunts Pier will have a 6th floor public restaurant overlooking the boardwalk. Pretty neat!! I'll dine there, for sure. What a view!! Thom
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