Diner to dust Doo Wop League failed when landmark

[writhinganacondo]

Scrocca sold it in 1998 when everything was still here. No one could've guessed then the future razing of pre-1965 Wildwood. He didn't have to "fix it up" or later "buy it back", it was before these controversies. At that time property values were still depressed, so perhaps some sour grapes there with the sale price. Subsequent owners ran it into the ground and did minimal upkeep but the structure remained in excellent shape, particularly the interior. Roof leaks did take a toll on the sub-flooring. (Like a lot of buildings in Wildwood).
It was moveable. Moving diners is common. The big expense would be bringing it up to code depending on the zoning, etc. I was told many times, like Finz noted, the diner was to be moved, but it seemed like a stall tactic and came across as a forbidden topic, and thats a shame. Diners are the heart of a downtown, and the Wildwood Diner was a bustling place for four decades until the 90's downslide here started to take its toll on it.
As for those who complain "nothing was done to save anything while it was here and then react when its gone" that sounds to me like the so-called local preservationists as well as the National Trust listing. Where were they in 1998? 5 years ago? 2 years ago? All these articles and now tv programs about the saving of Wildwood and the WW Diner gets rubbed without even a blurb in the local papers.

[Robert]

This situation is similar to how we were upset that Bud Hunt sold Hunt's Pier because the next owner demolished half the place. And yes 1998 was a different time. Almost everything was standing from motels, restaurants, the former Hunt Theatres, Castle Dracula, etc. Post-9/11 everything started changing, with motel demolitions starting, the Castle Dracula fire, and the Golden Nugget closed after 98 and sat dormant. It seems that anything and everything is at risk for being sold and demolished for something else. The diner opened in 1957? That's the same year Hunt's and Fun Piers opened. It is always sad when someone closes and sells their property after years of service, but when you have a zillion individually owned businesses, there is aways the risk of some of the businesses being lost due to owners retiring due to old age, or the owners wanting out of the business. And sometimes the next owner of the business doesn't share the same values as the previous owner and makes changes that are contrary to the wishes of the former owner. But, as the case of Hunt's Pier, the former owner's hands are tied-he sold the business, he can't tell the new owner what he can do with his property. Bud Hunt or Vince Kostek couldn't tell David Kami not to demolish the Flyer, etc.

[watchthetramcar]

Thank You, Thank You I so agree with you! The Wildwood Diner like many other "Hot" Spots in the Wildwood's could have been Preserved or just moved (in the WW Diner case) It's almost a Slap in our faces that the City/County/State would let this happen to a Place that is a Goldmine & such a Comfort to so many. I closed on my Condo Last Month & plan to eventually move back to NJ I can't tell you how many inquiries & mailings I got at Home, to buy a "New Condo" . I made up my mind I was going to do my part to Preserve & Buy at the Cara Mara not a eyesore that the New Condos are in the Wildwoods. My only wish is that I wish Mother Nature could "Blow Down" more New Vacant Condos as a Sign that we should not bite off more than we can chew in the Wildwoods & keep what we have. Anyway, before I went on my Verbal Rage..... The Newspapers should make more People in the Tri-State areas aware what is going on in the Wildwoods, so if by chance someone wanted to Buy or Re-Furbish a Property, they would have the opportunity to. All I can say is that I don't want my Future Home to look like O.C MD or Avalon I want it to look like what I see & that is The Wildwood's that we all Love Thanks for reading I think it' s almost time I get to bed Nighty....Night

[MMM]

fuzzyscorpio said:

Did you really misunderstand, Martin, or did the city fumble this one?

I don't know. It could even be neither, and I read some bad information and believed it. Not sure...

[thelastresort]

honestly, I don't think there is any need to try to overanalyze the situation. The first owner sold it, the new owner ruined it, and the first owner didn't do squat to stop it, and now regrets it.

[FlyinGN]

That about sums it up...

thelastresort said:

honestly, I don't think there is any need to try to overanalyze the situation. The first owner sold it, the new owner ruined it, and the first owner didn't do squat to stop it, and now regrets it.

[fuzzyscorpio]

There are more players in the Wildwood Diner drama than one seller and one buyer. And this conversation (as far as I'm concerned anyway) is about the diner more than it is about Joe Scrocca, who was only a bystander by the time the curtain started to fall on it.

The Wildwood Diner is "the one that got away." The more we can figure out about how and why that happened, the better our chances of helping to prevent similar preservation failures in the future. If you'll excuse the hoariest of cliches: Those who do not learn from their mistakes are condemned to repeat them.

[thelastresort]

Definitely agree here, the "one that got away". But the only way, in my opinion, to prevent this from happening in the future is to get someone to throw money at it, whether it be individuals, a grant from the Local, State or Federal Govt., or wherever.

We can sit around saying rosaries, but God ain't gonna come out of the sky and save it, He's got more important things to do right now. Some mortal, or at least mortal entity (i.e., Uncle Sam) has to step up.

Come on, it's an election year. I'm sure some official can use it as a stumping point.

[Robert]

Yes, the former owner Joe Scrocca was only a bystander, it was what, 8 years since he sold the diner? But, 1957-1998 is a long time, in fact the same amount of time Hunt's Pier was functional in some shape or form give or take a few years in the early mid 90's when the rides were shut. A comparison can be made to Hunt's, when everything was still standing since 1957-1965 in 1988, then the owner made a decision during the off season 88-89 to demo some of the rides to make room for more modern ones such as the Kamikaze coaster. Bud Hunt and Vince Kostek were alive at the time but they were only bystanders as they sold the pier and retired from it in fall 1985. So, their hands were tied. The same can be said for Dino Beach-The Catanosos they couldn't keep the Golden Nugget from closing because they no longer owned it post-1998. Ten years after the initial destruction of Hunt's Pier, the pier was on the market and the Morey's quickly acquired it to prevent any competition from rising at that location. Unfortunately that move meant the closing of the Nugget after years of operation. If anyone else got the pier, it might have been redeveloped as an amusement pier and the Nugget reopened. There were several buyers interested, but no takers during the 98-99 off season. As for the diner, it was the next owner's decision to demo it. I don't know what the motive was, did a developer pressure to remove it to build another condo?

[stationwagon]

Diner to dust Doo Wop League failed when landmark fell
Published: Sunday, October 1, 2006
Regarding the Sept. 21 article, “Staying on top of doo-wop/One-time Wildwood landmark at new location,” regarding the resurrection of the Surfside Restaurant:
I have a major bone to pick with the Doo Wop Preservation League and the Wildwood Historical Museum.

My family owned the Wildwood Diner from 1957 through 1998. The diner was recently demolished to make way for new construction. I will admit that the diner was in poor shape due to the lack of care after we sold the property. However, the structure as well as the history of the Wildwood Diner should have made it a No. 1 priority to save at any cost.

The Wildwood Diner was true doo-wop architecture. The property was used in advertisements, was studied by architectural students from all over the United States and written about in books, newspapers and magazines. Regarding the history of the Wildwood Diner, I truly believe that it was one of the first, if not the first, of the rock 'n' roll diners. In the '50s and early '60s, thingy Clark, Chubby Checker, Bill Haley and many other stars from that era were regulars at the Wildwood Diner. Throughout the time my family owned the diner, celebrities always came in for their meals. You can go just about anywhere in the United States and find someone who has eaten at the Wildwood Diner.

Of course my family was devastated to see the demolition of such a historical landmark. However, it was touching to see people online expressing their feelings that the diner should not have been destroyed. This building was so famous that pictures of the diner in its heyday right to the demolition are sold online by various companies. The Wildwoods had two truly famous eating establishments, Zaberer's and the Wildwood Diner.
www.pressofatlanticcity.com/opinion/letters/story/6801089p-6668460c.html

[FlyinGN]

any why are you repeting word for word what Re wrote at the start of this thread??

[fuzzyscorpio]

robert said:

As for the diner, it was the next owner's decision to demo it. I don't know what the motive was, did a developer pressure to remove it to build another condo?

Apparently so, and this is where it all gets really murky for me.

This is what I think happened, from putting together bits and pieces of information and speculation.

Back in the late 90s when the Scroccas evidently decided they were ready to get out of the diner business, their prospects likely were limited to people with an actual interest in running a diner. The buyers, whom we’ll call the Deadbeats, probably paid the Scroccas a relatively modest sum for the property, as writhinganacondo pointed out.

The market for this and all well-located commercial properties in the Wildwoods changed in the early ‘00s due to two main factors:

a) a boom period in real estate,
b) the new Wildwoods convention center.

Suddenly, the land was the coveted prize. What sat on the land didn’t matter. The Deadbeats now were being wooed and badgered by commercial interests seeking to buy the land occupied by the diner and redevelop it. No one--at least, no one who knew it was available--wanted the diner any more because (as you noted on the Binns thread, Robert) other uses of the land promised to be far more profitable in what had become a completely insane real estate market.

(Where was the DWPL at this point?)

At some point, perhaps two years ago, the Deadbeats reached some sort of an agreement with a developer--presumably, the developer of the Riviera Resort project, although as far as I know, the inclusion of the former diner site within the boundaries of that project has yet to be confirmed.

According to an article by Peter Genovese (author of The Jersey Shore Uncovered: A Revealing Season on the Beach) in the Star-Ledger in March, it was the developer, not the Deadbeats, who was at that time offering the facility on eBay contingent on its removal from the lot:

darkrideguy said:

Even the fabled Wildwood Diner is being moved out of the way for a mid-rise hotel. BCRC Associates of Newton, Pa., the developer, is offering the classic blue-trimmed 1950s diner for free to anyone willing to pay transportation costs.
© 2006 The Star Ledger
© 2006 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

Was that the best route to take? Was it given enough time, and was the developer clever enough in playing the eBay game to give the diner a real shot at being saved? And--most importantly, I guess--did the developer really care whether it was saved or not? I wish I knew. I know one thing for certain: when you offer something for nothing, people tend to assume that’s about what it’s worth.

(And... where was the DWPL at this point?)

I’d like to think that the Deadbeats, struggling to run the diner profitably (as evidenced by its poor upkeep), simply could not resist the temptation to take the money and run. I don’t like to think that they were “pressured.” How, after all, can a developer pressure an owner to give up his property--unless local officials back up the developer somehow? Can anyone comment on that? I would hate to have to regard the city of Wildwood as an accessory to this crime...

[Robert]

All this means is one less place to eat, and the loss of an authentic Doo-Wop building from the 50's. There are still plenty of restaurants like Ernie's, Urie's, Neil's, Rusty Rudder, Groff's, Russo's, and of course the boardwalk ones like Mack's, Sam's, etc. but there were plenty lost, Ed Zaberer's (how many of you miss that one and were upset when it closed and burned?), Captain's Table, Schumann's/Hudson's, Surfside, Duffinetti's, Uncle Lou's, and whatever else. What is on the sites of all these lost restaurants? All condos?

[MMM]

The developer didn't put the Diner on eBay as far as I know. When I had seen it on eBay, the last owner of the Diner listed it.

[wildre]

robert said:

All this means is one less place to eat, and the loss of an authentic Doo-Wop building from the 50's. There are still plenty of restaurants like Ernie's, Urie's, Neil's, Rusty Rudder, Groff's, Russo's, and of course the boardwalk ones like Mack's, Sam's, etc. but there were plenty lost, Ed Zaberer's (how many of you miss that one and were upset when it closed and burned?), Captain's Table, Schumann's/Hudson's, Surfside, Duffinetti's, Uncle Lou's, and whatever else. What is on the sites of all these lost restaurants? All condos?

Robert. Uncle Lou's burn down(the top floors away) Ernie's is now the Dow Wop Diner.
Robert you haven't been here since when.........the eary 90's....... visit soon or get off your soap box! Things have changed!!!!!!!!