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Post by wildre on Oct 1, 2006 9:07:08 GMT -5
From Today's letter to the Editor/AC Press. Diner to dust Doo Wop League failed when landmark fell Published: Sunday, October 1, 2006 Regarding the Sept. 21 article, “Staying on top of doo-wop/One-time Wildwood landmark at new location,” regarding the resurrection of the Surfside Restaurant: I have a major bone to pick with the Doo Wop Preservation League and the Wildwood Historical Museum. My family owned the Wildwood Diner from 1957 through 1998. The diner was recently demolished to make way for new construction. I will admit that the diner was in poor shape due to the lack of care after we sold the property. However, the structure as well as the history of the Wildwood Diner should have made it a No. 1 priority to save at any cost. The Wildwood Diner was true doo-wop architecture. The property was used in advertisements, was studied by architectural students from all over the United States and written about in books, newspapers and magazines. Regarding the history of the Wildwood Diner, I truly believe that it was one of the first, if not the first, of the rock 'n' roll diners. In the '50s and early '60s, thingy Clark, Chubby Checker, Bill Haley and many other stars from that era were regulars at the Wildwood Diner. Throughout the time my family owned the diner, celebrities always came in for their meals. You can go just about anywhere in the United States and find someone who has eaten at the Wildwood Diner. Of course my family was devastated to see the demolition of such a historical landmark. However, it was touching to see people online expressing their feelings that the diner should not have been destroyed. This building was so famous that pictures of the diner in its heyday right to the demolition are sold online by various companies. The Wildwoods had two truly famous eating establishments, Zaberer's and the Wildwood Diner. I have said this before and I will say it again. The Doo Wop Preservation League is a farce and has completely failed in its mission to preserve doo-wop architecture. The Wildwood Diner is gone and the old Surfside Restaurant is being used to house a Doo Wop museum. How ridiculous. JOE SCROCCA JR. Tuckahoe www.pressofatlanticcity.com/opinion/letters/story/6801089p-6668460c.html
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Post by Al Alven on Oct 1, 2006 9:26:46 GMT -5
The Wildwood Diner was a dead, lame duck two years before it was actually demolished. I certainly share Mr. Scrocca's regret in witnessing the diner's ultimate fate, but it's not like it's demise came as any sort of surprise.
I'm not sure what the DWPL could have done to save it, but I do wish Scrocca would have made his opinions public earlier (i.e. before the diner was demolished).
It's too late now, but I think his story could have been a valuable asset in drawing attention (and perhaps a savior) to the diner.
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Post by Captain Phil on Oct 1, 2006 9:39:44 GMT -5
If Scrocca wanted to save the diner, all that should have been said BEFORE it was torn down. No sence in playing the blame game, especially since Scrocca didnt say all that when it was still here.
Besides, that place was dead anyway. Im with you Al.
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Post by MMM on Oct 1, 2006 9:46:29 GMT -5
Well, people in the DWPL are upset by the Diner's demise, but only so much can be done. One of the people involved with the League told me they wished the Diner could have been moved onto this person's backyard to their office, even if temporarily until it could have permanent home somewhere. Easier said than done.
I don't like what happened to the Diner at all, and I even considered trying to get it last year, but there wasn't any available land in Wildwood to move it to that would have been a good location that I know of. Maybe someone else does. The proposed land that the Diner was to be moved to wasn't a good place for it at all, IMO, once I had seen it. If the land was donated (as I misunderstood it was going to be), that's one thing. But I don't see it being feasible financially to have paid for that piece of land (unless it was sold cheaply) and then try to run a profitable Diner in that location. It wouldn't have "saved" anything if it lost money...
I'm sorry Mr. Scrocca feels this way towards the League. He's understandably upset about the Diner, especially considering his past with it. I don't know what he tried to do to "save" the Diner...
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Post by Cindy on Oct 1, 2006 9:50:35 GMT -5
With the recent post about the DWPL website in desperate need of some updating, this article is timely. I took a (very) spontaneous trip to WW yesterday. While walking past the empty lot of the former Carousel, I had a thought: What is the DWPL up to? As a member, I would at least expect updates, requests to write to government agencies, or even solicitations for volunteers. I fully support the ideals of the DWPL, but I am not sure what part they are playing. I am sure that many of you would jump if the DWPL asked, but they are not asking. I keep thinking that their hands are tied since they do not own the properties.
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Post by Doowopper on Oct 1, 2006 18:35:42 GMT -5
I think we all feel bad about the Wildwood Diner being lost, and I believe the DWPL had it on their list of Doo-Wop places for sale at one point. However, we must ask the question. In it's condition, was it worth saving over the Surfside? Apparently the Surfside was in much better condition, and it's not like it's being saved to run as a diner. It's being made into a museum and bandshell. The Wildwood Diner could not be made into somthing like that, it was a diner and it's design probably wouldn't warent anything else.
It's a shame we lost such a unique building. But, it had fallen to shambles, and this guy was making a point worth being heard, way to late. I do agree that the DWPL needs to be more involved with it's members. I'm sure all of us on this forum, who are probably some of the most dedicated people to the preservation of Wildwood around, could be of some use to the League.
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Post by thelastresort on Oct 2, 2006 6:52:45 GMT -5
Another example of people trying to put the blame on someone/something else for their own failures. Pathetic, if you ask me. (sell it, take the profits, then bellyache and blame everyone else when the new owners decide to wreck it). Sorry, I just don't get it? "the structure as well as the history of the Wildwood Diner should have made it a No. 1 priority to save at any cost." why didn't the former owners make it a priority (i.e., cough up some of their own money) if they cared so much?
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Post by Rob Ascough on Oct 2, 2006 13:34:03 GMT -5
I agree 110%.
The guy sold the place, and then whines about how it got demolished. WTF? That's like me selling my car to my brother and then getting upset that he wrecked the thing. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And to claim the DWPL is a farce is just making someone else a scapegoat. If they realyl cared for the diner, they would have worked to save it before they sold it because once it was out of their hands, all bets were off.
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Post by mickeyfinz on Oct 2, 2006 13:52:43 GMT -5
I SWEAR that I heard that the WW Diner was sold and planned to be moved to another location, and then I saw it flat and was saddened. This guy must be joking or he's had his head up his butt and now sees what HIS actions accomplished and (like so many in our society) is quick to blame some one else.
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Post by Rob Ascough on Oct 2, 2006 14:26:06 GMT -5
It's typical... the people who don't care about historic stuff when it's around are the loudest when something historic is gone.
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 2, 2006 17:47:50 GMT -5
Thanks Wildre. In case anyone forgot, or missed it, Scrocca had a similar letter published in the Cape May County Herald in August: dwpl.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=motels&action=display&thread=1155817649&page=1#1155837809His tone in this one is sharper and less sentimental and he is more forthright about his desire to cast doubt on the credibility of the League. Having read the responses so far, I have to say I do not believe we are obligated to jump to the DWPL’s defense just because this forum happens to be their property. Of course, we have the predictable reactions from the conservative faction here (“whiner, loser, whiner, loser, nyah, nyah.” ;D) I don't entirely disagree; my emotional reaction to the letter is, dammit, why’d you sell your treasure to a bunch of ***holes? But there seems to be a lot we didn’t and still don’t know, as is usually the case with these things ... Somebody told watchtthetramcar as late as early June that the diner was going to be dismantled and rebuilt on another lot. dwpl.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=motels&action=display&thread=1149014848&page=1#1149387296Two months later the demolition began. Mickeyfinz and even Martin, who seems to make a special effort to be informed about real estate activity, sound as though they were misled at least to some extent about the fate of this structure. Is it possible that Scrocca himself was misled--from the beginning, even? That he and his family trusted the new owners to keep the diner alive and well? Don’t you think maybe the reason he’s still fiercely beating this poor dead horse is because he got schnookered and is furious about it? And don’t you think it’s likely he’d have spoken out sooner if he believed he was about to see the family’s beloved legacy reduced to rubble? As for the constantly reiterated notion that we should excuse the loss of the diner because its physical condition was beyond rescue: no disrespect, folks, but how can we be sure of that? I have been reviewing posts about the diner, and there is a comment somewhere from Frank saying that it was in great shape five years ago. How would it descend to lost-cause condition that fast? Yes, the city had branded it uninhabitable, as reported by Wildre a while back, but we don’t know exactly why. Restaurants fail inspections all the time due to reversible unsanitary conditions... And yes, parts of the facade were stripped or in deteriorating shape, but the front view posted by Thom right before the demolition (gone from Photobucket now, but I saved it) really didn’t look that bad. Any expert witnesses out there? If I’m not mistaken, the DWPL saved the Surfside by mounting a fundraising campaign. I’m sure Scrocca feels they could and should have done the same on behalf of the Wildwood Diner. Bottom line: You may find Scrocca’s rants annoying, you may think he’s a self-pitying jerk... but that doesn’t mean his criticisms are unwarranted. At best, I suspect, somebody, somewhere in this ugly saga, took their eye off the ball. I think we all feel bad about the Wildwood Diner being lost, and I believe the DWPL had it on their list of Doo-Wop places for sale at one point. However, we must ask the question. In it's condition, was it worth saving over the Surfside? Doowopper, I’m not sure Scrocca is saying the Wildwood Diner should have been saved instead of the Surfside; he may mean they both should have been saved as food-service businesses. From his bitter perspective at this point, the Doo-Wop Museum probably looks like nothing more than a monument to failure. I sometimes feel that way about it myself... With the recent post about the DWPL website in desperate need of some updating, this article is timely. I took a (very) spontaneous trip to WW yesterday. While walking past the empty lot of the former Carousel, I had a thought: What is the DWPL up to? As a member, I would at least expect updates, requests to write to government agencies, or even solicitations for volunteers. I fully support the ideals of the DWPL, but I am not sure what part they are playing. I am sure that many of you would jump if the DWPL asked, but they are not asking. Maybe because the fire is out--for now--and they’re taking advantage of a break from raging sales and demolitions to update their overall strategy. That’s about the most charitable spin I can think to put on it...
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mike
Full Member
Posts: 170
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Post by mike on Oct 2, 2006 18:58:20 GMT -5
the dinner was for sale on ebay for 35000 if he cared so much he should of bought it.
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Post by MMM on Oct 2, 2006 19:27:45 GMT -5
Mickeyfinz and even Martin, who seems to make a special effort to be informed about real estate activity, sound as though they were misled at least to some extent about the fate of this structure. Is it possible that Scrocca himself was misled--from the beginning, even? That he and his family trusted the new owners to keep the diner alive and well? Don’t you think maybe the reason he’s still fiercely beating this poor dead horse is because he got schnookered and is furious about it? And don’t you think it’s likely he’d have spoken out sooner if he believed he was about to see the family’s beloved legacy reduced to rubble? Mr. Scrocca sold the Diner way before there was any talk of building something new in its now former location. I can't speak for Mr. Scrocca or his family, but I'd imagine that in 1998, demolition of the Diner wasn't even a thought. There are some old threads on the Forum with discussion of the Diner being moved last year. I misunderstood last year that the land I mentioned earlier was being donated by the City of Wildwood to provide a new home for the Diner and "save" it. I later found out that the City of Wildwood does not donate property, but wanted to sell this vacant land to have a place for the Diner to be moved to. Again, once I saw the lot for myself, I couldn't imagine it being a good location to run the Diner, considering that the land would have to be paid for. This is in my opinion only...
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Post by MMM on Oct 2, 2006 19:29:07 GMT -5
the dinner was for sale on ebay for 35000 if he cared so much he should of bought it. As time passed, the last owner was supposedly willing to give the Diner away to whoever would have it moved off the property.
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Post by fuzzyscorpio on Oct 2, 2006 20:01:49 GMT -5
Mickeyfinz and even Martin, who seems to make a special effort to be informed about real estate activity, sound as though they were misled at least to some extent about the fate of this structure. Is it possible that Scrocca himself was misled--from the beginning, even? That he and his family trusted the new owners to keep the diner alive and well? Don’t you think maybe the reason he’s still fiercely beating this poor dead horse is because he got schnookered and is furious about it? And don’t you think it’s likely he’d have spoken out sooner if he believed he was about to see the family’s beloved legacy reduced to rubble? Mr. Scrocca sold the Diner way before there was any talk of building something new in its now former location. I can't speak for Mr. Scrocca or his family, but I'd imagine that in 1998, demolition of the Diner wasn't even a thought. Sure, but my point was that the Scroccas may have expected the new owners to keep the place "alive and well." Instead they let the diner fall into a state of disrepair serious enough to have been a factor in its demise, according to most opinions voiced here. I hear people saying that if the last owners had taken care of the diner, maybe the expense and difficulty involved in transplanting it would have seemed less daunting, someone would have stepped up to the plate, and it would still be standing today in a different location. Did you really misunderstand, Martin, or did the city fumble this one? I'm wondering whether, if you and mickeyfinz and perhaps others got the impression that the city was going to save the diner, maybe that's what the Scroccas thought, too? And found out the truth too late? the dinner was for sale on ebay for 35000 if he cared so much he should of bought it. As Martin pointed out, he probably wouldn't have had to pay a plug nickel for it in the end--but he would have had to undertake the cost of moving it. Meanwhile, it had been five years or so since the family received the proceeds of the sale, which they may have needed for some other investment or expense. It's not fair to assume they had buckets of cash handy. More importantly, Scrocca is not the one carrying around a flag with the word "preservation" on it. That's his point, and I think its validity is undeniable.
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