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Post by wildre on May 25, 2005 5:03:18 GMT -5
SirCaz, Not sure about the Crest but I do know the NWW Beach Life Guards will transport folks via jeep and truck to the beach, from there Station on 15th, I think they just have to request transport. Anthony may know what the policy at the Crest may be. Don't see any info on their website www.wcbp.org/. This may be a great option for your wife? re
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Post by AnthonyV on May 25, 2005 12:22:38 GMT -5
SirCaz:
Good point! The lifeguards down here, in my own opinion and from experience, have always been among the finest along the Jersey Shore IMO. Especially the Wildwood guards!
I know that the WWC guards have driven some people back and forth in certain instances as well...
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sandy
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Post by sandy on May 25, 2005 13:47:52 GMT -5
I have listened to what's been said around me. I respect the rights to opinion of others but was under the impression that a rational if dissenting opinion could be entertained and engaged here without being wildly misconstrued as petty, attention-craving or unproductive . But again some of you have misinterpreted my words. I welcome all visitors to Wildwood, as do the majority of its residents. Many of us simply question many of the highly dubious schemes that many people who visit here in the summer would have the island implement(granted some people here have similarly vocalized crazed schemes, we question those too). To address the issue, all too often it seems that the only thing many visitors care about are themeselves, their convenience, their nostalgia for architecture, their conceptions of the island, etc. with total disregard for the life of the island and its residents the rest of the year. Residents are expected in contrast to care for the interests of the visitors(which we do) as well as for our own education, safety, aesthetics, etc. I assure you that the later often suffers unnecessarily for the former, by way of the profligacy of such projects as I have mentioned above. If you have a health problem the lifeguards will be more than happy to accomodate you. But to promote profligate expenditure on unnecessary(if novel) summer targeted projects is only civicly reckless, and has been in the past. Before we need not just beach trams, but bayfront boardwalks, lighted night swimming, a Doo Wop hotel sign graveyard, moving sidewalks, camels, subways, or rocket ship street signs, maybe we should fix Wildwood High's ceilings, preserve the dunes, improve educational transportation, address the whole blocks, yes blocks, of abandoned buildings, or maybe the rampant drug market. Just try to remember that the island does not exist only when you are here, or in your recollections of experiences from the Doo Wop era. Our interaction is most often, if not always, pleasant, and is mutually advantageous. The rational, grounded consideration of all parties' interests in the Wildwoods is the sole path to civic responsibility.
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Post by Doowopper on May 25, 2005 14:26:20 GMT -5
Wildwood already has rocket ship shaped street signs, and palm tree ones, and some very interesting street lights. I don't think the sand dunes are going anywhere, as long as the wind fences are kept up to snuff and people stay off them theres no need to worry about them, the water is hundreds of feet away from them, it's not like it's Long Beach Island. And as for blocks of abandoned buildings, some of the ideas heer could be used to eliminate those. Lighted night swimming is fine, it causes no harm. Of course a bayfront boardwalk would never work, I think the person with that idea was just throwing out random ideas of stuff, don't take it so seriously, just about (if not everyone) here knows the bay and it's untouched beuty are a great part of the Wildwoods. But your right Sandy parts of Wildwood are a disaster, we drove through this one part, it felt like we were in Rahway, but that's the fault of your towns elected officials who do nothing to fix it. There is no need for any of Wildwood to be in shambles. And personally, )Im sure you would agree also) that Id rather tear down a block of abandoned buildings and build a wildwood history museum with neon grave yard then leave the abandoned buildings. My thoughts didn't come through to good in this post so I'm sorry if it sounds kind of unclear.
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sandy
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Post by sandy on May 25, 2005 15:01:40 GMT -5
Thank you for your balanced response doowopper. Wildwood's elected officials are indeed responsible for much of its ills. It's not that they do nothing, however. It's that they do the wrong thing: spend money on wasteful projects that do nothing to improve Wildwood's economy or appearance. Thus, rocket ship street signs and fake palm trees instead of sound construction, staffing, and transportation in the schools, expenditure related to 25 story "neo" doo wop hotels instead of development of crime ridden and abandoned areas. Reallocation of these funds would in fact boost tourism rather than detract from it, as I can tell you from experience that many people who love both doo wop and wildwood generally now vacation elsewhere to avoid the crime, discontented locals, and increasingly pervasive tackiness and disrepair of much of the town's current face.
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Post by Doowopper on May 25, 2005 15:24:02 GMT -5
Actually I think all the attention that main road has been given (street lights, sign Wawa) etc. have really helped to fix up that section of Wildwood. But these renovations need to move elsewhere from there. Many of the DWPL's ideas would improve these run down areas, but the town is to busy tearing down the towns heart and soul to build condominiums that arent built correctly to be near the ocean sea air, and also clutter the island thus detracting from it's open air feel. Most motels are small 2-4 floor establishments that keep Wildwood open. Many condos are huge and shoved in every possible lot. They clutter the island. And as for the 25 story hotel, I think it's too big.
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Post by anticondo on May 25, 2005 17:31:41 GMT -5
The Dwpl's idea's are not neglectful to the needs and desires of the city's residents. Without tourism the city's economy is going to suffer. Without new and maybe "Strange" idea's for Downtown WW there will be no interest taken in the area which will only leave it to deteriorate more. The destruction of the Motels is going to really hurt the tourism because condo's just don't draw as many people as the motel's. The city of the crest will not have the same number of patrons as it did up until last summer which will destroy the resort town feel of the area thereby basically destroying it's character and completely destroying what took over 50 years to build in only a matter of a few years. I don't think anything could be worse for this island the condo's and neglecting the undeveloped piers and vacant lots near the boards like the castle and the abandoned boardwalk block.
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Post by wildwanderer on May 25, 2005 17:37:37 GMT -5
Sandy, Are you running for mayor??
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sandy
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Post by sandy on May 25, 2005 18:29:49 GMT -5
As to the desires of many residents, I think you'd be surprised, Anti-condo, at the degree to which many(as well as visitors, I should add) are opposed to Doo Wop in total, not just to the promotion and proliferation of unsightly "neo" Doo Wop as I am. While the DWPL is not directly responsible for neglecting the needs of residents, it does pressure new businesses and the political apparatus to erect "neo" Doo Wop architecture, thereby wasting an opportunity for tasteful modernity as much as most new cookie cutter condos promote unprecedented conformity, neither of which substantial numbers of visitors or residents desire. Regarding downtown, the question is not so much one of attention to the area and strange novel thinking, but of lack of enterprise. Most certainly the way to promote business in Wildwood's downtown is not to just paint the sidewalks blue in hopes of a Doo Wop revival. It would behoove the City of Wildwood's government to visibly embrace progress rather than rocket ships to attract new business. As regards the condos and underdevelopment, I agree that the condo glut and neglect are not beneficial. A caveat should nonetheless first be raised: The start of the condo boom was due to the forces of the market. Many visitors were(and are) in fact tired of the increasingly exorbitant rates that many dated motels charged for questionable facilities. As a result, both visitor and owner began to turn to the condo market. After that it has, irrespective of market forces, gotten out of hand , both in quantity and rental rates, as you all well know. I think you will see the correction of the condo market, to be welcomed, but not so much a financial revival of the Doo Wop motels. Those that remain should be preserved to cater to visitors of your and your colleagues' ilk(as well as to the historical sensibilities of people like me), while a stable condo element and modern hotels should also be available for other consumers. To embrace any one at the expense of the others is fiscally cavalier.
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Post by MMM on May 25, 2005 19:28:06 GMT -5
Regarding downtown, the question is not so much one of attention to the area and strange novel thinking, but of lack of enterprise. Most certainly the way to promote business in Wildwood's downtown is not to just paint the sidewalks blue in hopes of a Doo Wop revival. It would behoove the City of Wildwood's government to visibly embrace progress rather than rocket ships to attract new business. I agree that the area needs more than just a "revival" of sorts on the surface, and needs more businesses that people will want to patronize, but I don't see how/why the look of the "downtown" area that has been recently fixed up (not the rundown sections) would be detrimental to having new businesses open. If anything, I could see parking being a problem, especially the many 15 minute parking spaces that aren't exactly conducive to more than peeking in somewhere. The hours of the establishments were quite limited back when the old "Holly Beach" pedestrian mall was there. Particularly in the "on season", having stores close too early (as they used to in the "Holly Beach" days) will not allow for enough of a draw of customers to sucessfully operate. People (such as myself) just won't bother going down there if most of the stores will be closed early. Too late and of course you can run into trouble too...
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sandy
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Post by sandy on May 25, 2005 20:11:12 GMT -5
The "revitalized" dowtown just demonstrates what the priorities of the local government are, aesthetic rather than substantive. The parking is a perfect example. As to the aesthetics' effect on business, many visitors to the island, should they even learn of or actually visit the Holly Beach Mall, find the area tacky, dirty, and uninviting and subsequently are discouraged from returning. I am always eager to ask the visitors I encounter what they think of the mall and Rio Grande Ave. This is invariably their reaction. In fact they often laugh or ask who thought of the idea. Sadly, many first time visitors in fact exhibit this reaction to the Wildwoods generally.
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Post by MMM on May 25, 2005 21:02:59 GMT -5
I agree - more work needs to be done down there. Hopefully whatever has happened of late there is just a start, and not only decoration.
As far as the entrance/Rio Grande Avenue, I think it's coming together pretty well (though there's still more to do), except for the condos that are being built on the site of the old Urie's Reef & Beef/Teddy's, which don't look like they belong there so far (not to mention the questionable idea of building new residences in a flood zone), but I'll wait and see the finished product. I have to wonder about 25 story hotels too though. It seems like they're almost a necessity for the new Convention Center to be as successful as it should be to accomodate certain events. Hopefully these hotels will be limited to a small area and will still somehow look like they "belong". The rest of the look that's coming together on Rio Grande Avenue, such as the Wawa, etc., I like quite a bit for the most part. I put links to the DWPL's main site and this Forum in my "signature" on some other Forums (which have nothing to do with resorts/architecture/etc.) I belong to. Right away I got a some nice comments privately from some others, including one person who hadn't been to the Wildwoods in many years, but made a point of how much he liked the way Rio Grande Avenue and the Wawa was looking. Not everyone will like everything, so of course you'll get a few people who will see the new/old look and decide it's not for them. That's OK, there are places that they'd prefer that are not for me. Such is life. IMO, we should be attracting people who do love the Wildwoods, instead of changing it to chase the people that don't right now.
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Post by AnthonyV on May 25, 2005 22:27:20 GMT -5
Since my family live and own homes and other property in Wildwood Crest (and have so for the last 40 plus years) I'll avoid offering any comment pertaining to what residents, visitors, and vacationers to Wildwood think about that area and stay focused on Wildwood Crest instead.
As far as what IS and CONTINUES taking place within my own community, the condo situation can not be attributed to what some Wildwood "locals" feel has taken place in their area. Whatever Wildwood "locals" might think or feel as stated on this message board, realize that those opinions and remarks are mostly limited to the plight of Wildwood.
No offense to Sandy but I've read and re-read his/her messages VERY CAREFULLY (as did a longtime neighbor who once worked for years on the zoning board right before the condo craze arrived) and I can assure anyone concerned about the Crest that what's happening over in Wildwood has very little to do with how things are in Wildwood Crest. (Example: Look no further than what happened with the Surf Side Restaurant plan to see what those differences might be.)
By comparison, the Crest is a town that, especially now, has WAY MORE TO LOSE than Wildwood in failing to protect and maintain a certain level of responsibility in preserving and promoting it's Doo Wop culture. Probably because the Crest always had more to offer due to the fact that it had so many more 1950 & '60s motels.
The Crest has always been a curious place that is hard to define mostly because it operates with a different business sense including local government concerns involving certain areas of funding in order to cover its responsibilities. Up until recently the officials here have usually done what was right for the community in order to provide what was best for residents and visitors alike...But that may no longer be the case after what's been allowed to take place here within the last four years.
Even today, (for better or for worse) the Crest is still oddly unique in how it goes about "doing things" and should not be confused with what happens in other parts of Wildwood - especially when it comes to it's overall civic responsibilities.
In Wildwood Crest, where the threat of losing these historic motels is now more immediate, more extreme and ultimately more consequential - most residents (though I'm sure not all) are rapidly becoming unanimous in their overall support for Doo Wop compared to in the recent past.
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Post by anticondo on May 26, 2005 17:55:26 GMT -5
I hope the desires of the citizens and the tourists of WWC will be able to get the officials to do the right thing soon. Those buildings all maintained the Islands character. I'm surprised all the officials would even let this happen. I don't think City officials in other city's would let all there historicals buildings be demolished.
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sandy
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Post by sandy on May 27, 2005 0:39:19 GMT -5
Anthony I'm flattered by your scrutiny of my posts and your enlistment of expert council. I should make more of a distinction between my views on the Wildwood's generally and its individual towns. As regards my hometown, Wildwood Crest is a strange beast in the Wildwoods indeed. It is clearly a quiet, safe, clean seaside community. The public expenditure of the Crest is remarkably balanced, there is almost no crime, the elementary school is, I can attest, an examplar of public primary education, and the streets and beaches are spotless. The Crest's efforts at Doo Wop preservation have been more substantial than those of the other towns(ie Surf Side, etc), but I don't think the town has done so in fears of financial ruin at the hands of the loss of the Doo Wop motels. Rather, I think the Crest's limited efforts in this pursuit came not only of a recognition of the historical significance of Doo Wop and the past, but of a precient understanding of the future. Tacky neo Doo Wop signs, rocket ship street signs, and blue sidewalks are conspicuously absent. Rather, we have the beautifully groomed seaside bike path I noticed FlyinGN so smiley about in his picture, one of the best public grade schools in the state, a beautifully unsullied bayfront, etc. Wildwood Crest is something of an amalgam of Wildwood identities, combining the beach, the strip, the bay, residences, Doo Wop, condos, and hi rise modern motels without substantial crime, unsightliness, or an unattractive reputation. This is hardly the unquestionable result of a preservation of Doo Wop architecture, but of a diversifed market and demographic base, balanced public expenditure, high property values and their attendant tax revenues, illegality of alcohol, and a sensible attitude toward progress. As long as these considerations are paramount, and as long as the beaches are clean, Wildwood Crest will remain prosperous. The condo's will correct and many will even be leveled, and new motels will eventually be constructed. I doubt that substantial numbers of visitors or residents will be demanding that they be outrightly Doo Wop designed. As long as clean, well equipped motel rooms are available, there will be a demand for them in Wildwood Crest, from the Doo Wop crowd or otherwise. The high level of Doo Wop hotels is but one of a host of beneficial attributes that Wildwood Crest is fortuntate enough to incorporate. The rational residents of Wildwood Crest are cognizant of these facts and are far from unanimously in support solely of Doo Wop to the exclusion of renewel, but rather most often stress the sensible adaptation to inevitable change as well as the tasteful preservation of precedent.
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